Energy Storage in Hydrogen : Does this beat batteries?

Energy Storage in Hydrogen : Does this beat batteries?

well it's a lovely day and I've just recently got myself some portable solar panels so what better way to test them then rigging up and makeshift chemistry lab in my back garden and making some of my own homemade DIY hydrogen what could possibly go wrong hello and welcome to just everything so what's going on and how do I propose to make my own hydrogen well the plan is to do it via electrolysis I've got my plastic container here with two upturned bottles of water and another larger bottle of water here both of which have got a few tablespoons of baking soda in them and the baking soda is just there to make the water a better electrolyte or a conductor of electricity so I'm going to pour this water into there take the caps off those bottles to keep that water in there and then I've got these two pencil LEDs pencil refill meds they're basically sticks of graphite and they're going to act as our electrodes one negative and one positive which I'll get up inside those bottles in a moment and then I've got my portable solar panel which is my source of renewable energy unfortunately these panels come conveniently with their own crocodile clips and I can plug it in whenever I'm ready and these clips are going to go on the end of these electrolytes electrodes rather to allow the current to flow so let me get all that set up and then we'll press the go switch so that's the electrodes into the water bottles in our solution and theory as soon as I plug this end of the wire into this solar panel we should start saying gases bubbling up into those bottles hope through twice as fast in this one which is the negative electrode than in this one because there's two hydrogen atoms for every oxygen atom in water so twice as many ions or electro electrons are going to be going into this bottle as they are into this bottle so let's plug it in and see what happens so that's going to take a few minutes to do its thing and fill up the bottle and push all the water back out into the solution I'm gonna go Mogollon come back in a few minutes and see how we're getting on right so now we've got a bottle of what we think is full of hydrogen so let's disconnect power supply and then just take that out carefully cap back on cap to that gas in the bottle now just write everything off we can get this that's to say it's quite windy today but if we can get it to stay we should be able to yeah inaudible pot it's all a little flame there as well not much gas in there not under much pressure either so it doesn't give a huge explosion but at least enough to show that there is gas in there so on that amazing bombshell of a demonstrations it's back to me in the cabin so in the last program we looked at battery storage for electrical grid systems and domestic micro grid systems but batteries are one of only several ways that energy can be effectively stored hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe and it's a great energy carrier it's got a very high level of energy per unit of mass a couple of slight snags it's very reactive so in real life it's generally bonded to other elements as a compound and in order to free the hydrogen from that compound you have to shove in a bunch of energy to break those bonds which is exactly what the electrolysis was doing earlier on and secondly he wants it's finally been released hydrogen is a very low density gas at room temperature in fact it's about three times less dense the natural gas for example so in order to store it and use it in any kind of practical way we either have to pressurize it to something like between a hundred and three hundred times atmospheric pressure so that we can get it into canisters that we can transport in a practical way or we have to get it extremely cold like about minus 250 degrees Celsius so that we can make it into a liquid which again we can store and transport both these things of course require a large amount of energy but in compressed form it contains about 40,000 watt hours of energy per kilogram which compares to about 280 watt hours of energy per kilogram that the best lithium-ion batteries can produce today and all the energy that's required can be produced with renewable technologies so if you can scale that up you really have got yourself a potentially transformational solution for all sorts of applications and when you convert the hydrogen back to produce usable energy by reacting it with oxygen again the only by-product is water now noxious gases or horrible co2 emissions and that not only makes it a great candidate for fuel cells in vehicles but also for large-scale energy storage on the grid now it's true to say that despite all this abundantly free energy human beings did still originally managed to find a way of producing hydrogen that allowed them to still involve fossil fuels and carbon dioxide that method is called methane steam reforming and it's widely used in industrial hydrogen production particularly in the United States we covered steam reforming in a previous video which you can have a look at by clicking up there so I'm not going to go into detail about that in today's program instead the focus of today's video is on hydrogen produced from electrolysis for mass energy storage the big energy producers have been developing this concept for some time now it's something they call power to gas or P to G and in the case of grid storage you can pretty much think of that hydrogen like a battery that can produce electricity as and when it's needed so those industry pods have called that power to gas to power or P 2 G 2 P one of the big advantages hydrogen storage has over battery storage is the length of time it can be stored for batteries are best suited to being discharged within relatively short time scales like hours rather than days but hydrogen can be stored for weeks or months and as long as you've got enough space you can just dump more and more storage tanks on-site giving you extra power capacity whenever you need it and it's exactly this kind of scalability and store ability that's going to be needed as renewable technologies form a larger and larger portion of our national electricity grids in fact within a few short years possibly only a couple of decades from now renewable technologies are predicted to provide the vast majority of energy for the new smart grids that are being planned or implemented all over the globe and that means will most likely need seasonal energy storage hydrogen is the perfect candidate for this during the summer months when you're producing far more electricity than you need from your solar and your wind you can just squirrel all that energy away by storing it in hydrogen and then during the darker winter months you can convert that stored energy back into electricity as and when you need it and because hydrogen is immediately convertible back to electricity it can also be used as a grid balancer smoothing out the spikes in demand in the same way that lithium-ion batteries do today here in Europe renewable technologies already represents a fairly significant proportion of grid power so several pilot projects are already well underway to establish how best to include hydrogen storage into the overall energy provision mix in 2016 the energy technologies institute in the UK started a trial using salt caverns at three locations in the north of the country salt caverns have been used for many years to store various types of gases for the chemical industry like methane and chlorine so using them to store hydrogen seems like quite a smart move some of these caverns are extremely deep perhaps as high as the Eiffel Tower and in some cases exceeding a million cubic meters in volume hydrogen gas gets pumped in at high pressure and then when extra electricity needs to be generated for the grid the gas is allowed to flow out over a turbine but it can also be fed into the existing gas pipelines for domestic heating without any alteration to the system and that makes it a very alternative substitute product to facilitate the phase-out of natural methane gas heating for our homes more about that in a future program according to this report by John Parnell for Forbes online a similar system of around 100 megawatts has been installed in the United Arab Emirates and projects are also underway in Australia and of course in China but it looks like a least on this occasion China doesn't win the accolade for biggest hydrogen storage facility in the world no that prize goes to a project in Utah in the good old US of A there's a lot of salt in Utah and Mormons the project run jointly by Mitsubishi and salt cavern owners Magnum development aims to achieve a 1 gigawatt power rating the Forbes report tells us that Mitsubishi has developed a gas turbine for power plants that can operate efficiently with a mixture of natural gas and hydrogen it has sketched out a technology roadmap that will eventually see a gas turbine using exclusively hydrogen if the electrolysis used to create the hydrogen is powered by renewables then that hydrogen can be considered a renewable energy source these storage technologies look like becoming essential elements of the smart grid rollout as we strive to move away from harmful fossil fuels as fast as possible let's just remind ourselves how far off we are from meeting either the 1 point 5 degrees Celsius or even the 2 degrees Celsius targets set out in the 2015 Paris agreement this chart shows our global co2 emissions in Giga tons per year the curve is currently going in a relentlessly upward direction leading us to four or five degrees of extra warming by the end of the century it actually needs to start going in the opposite direction in a very short period of time and it's radical new technologies like hydrogen storage that will help achieve these extremely challenging goals in the next program we'll be taking a closer look at that hydrogen for heating idea that I talked about a moment ago and we'll also be reviewing the latest developments in hydrogen fuel cell technologies that's it for this week though please do give us a like and a share if you found the program useful and informative and a massive thank you to the nearly 1,000 new subscribers you've joined the channel just in the last seven days your support really is hugely appreciated the more subscribers we get the more visible we are to the YouTube search engines and the more people get to hear about the climate challenges and solutions that are being worked on around the globe if you haven't already subscribed it's dead easy and free to do that all you need to do is click on that link there as always thanks very much for watching have a great week and remember to just ever think see you next week

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34 thoughts on “Energy Storage in Hydrogen : Does this beat batteries?

  1. My problem with Hydrogen is not it's clean energy possibilites but it will if allowed to become a main fuel supply, become the next Fossil fuel control system.
    What I mean is that with EV's using battery and Electric motors we can after purchase be under no ones control, we can use our Solar panels to charge for free or use easy to access Chargers, that are already here and the Infrastructure is there as well to suit Electricity.
    There is no infrastructure at all for Hydrogen, it would need to be installed nationwide to be of any use to us at huge costs.
    The people pushing for Hydrogen will wish to recover this cost and with Government push behind them will slowly but surely push out pure EV's and all Vehicles will become Hydrogen as then they can control pricing and supply.
    No one can produce their own usable Hydrogen from home.
    If people are so stupid to not see why there is a push from certain Companies towards Hydrogen then you all deserve the price you will pay to fill your Vehicle in 10 years time, I will make sure I get my charge station installed at my House and purchase a pure EV before Hydrogen starts to gain momentum.
    The Fossil Fuel Industry may have to go green eventually but they will still want to make Billions from us and also have the control on how much they can rip us off.
    Please stop saying Hydrogen is a good way to go, you seem a fairly intelligetn man, if you weren't you would have more hair ;).
    Battery and Electricity derived from Wind/Water and Solar is the only way forward, if everyone had 10kw or more Solar panels on their roof and they were all connected to a local large scale battery system each Suburb could essentially be it's own power provider and only connected to Suburbs around them as fail safes as well as to help with fluctuations of clouds and lack of Wind in areas.
    Mark my words if we allow Hydrogen to gain supremacy, then Hydrogen powered Vehicles will become the norm and then we will be stuck to paying what ever they wish to charge us once they have lured us in with cheap Hydrogen, all Gas stations can be converted to Hydrogen stations at a hefty cost as Hydrogen won't store the saem way as Gasoline does.

  2. Ive been saying it a long long time,bateries are for smal stuff,cars big,hydrogen yes and the rest thats the way to go!

  3. problem is the operating temperature of the metal catalyst, it's always been too high, LG closed big research lab in Ohio, they could never get a working prototype, maybe in the future

  4. Great video, I was wondering how much water is required to continuously provide storage of TWh of energy stored and whether this would be a problem should everyone start to use this technology worldwide. I understand that when it is burnt the output is water but if lots of hydrogen is stored there will be a vast amount of water taken out of the world's water reserves, also if the oxygen liberated will increase oxygen in the atmosphere what effects will that have? I suspect there are no free lunches and we once thought the bounty of the oceans was limitless but it was not.

  5. So what happens to the extra atoms on each side? EG: On the hydrogen side what happens with the oxygen molecule when it separates from the hydrogen, there is nowhere in the bottle for it to escape. For the oxygen bottle, there are 2 hydrogen atoms left, I don't seem them transporting to the other bottle. So, I am slightly confused on how this actually functions.

  6. We need the new 4’th gen nuclear molten salt reactors… Come on world… We need current… Election Day tomorrow… (in Denmark nonetheless )

  7. Hydrogen is good but I believe energy storage will be capacitors. No volatile gas, no turbines, just capture and release.

  8. Utah has a lot of flat land and a lot of sunlight, plus the huge salt deposits. Sounds like a great opportunity for solar-powered electrolysis to feed local Hydrogen storage.

  9. You should do a video on Ammonia as a long term Hydrogen storage and transport medium. Ammonia is more efficient at storing hydrogen (density wise) then even liquid hydrogen, and is cheaper to store for a long periods of time because you don't have to maintain a super low temperature.

  10. Why do supposed alternative energy experts always say there are only two ways of storing hydrogen? There are commercially available magnesium hydride storage tanks, which uses the metal's ability to keep hydrogen inside the gaps in the crystal structure.

  11. Well, I thought that was a fantastic video…. right up to the piont where the end was being anounced rather than the nitty about storage. I had seen the warning signs when shifting orders of magnitudes within the same sentence when referring to the salt cavern storage of excess hydrogen in the summer months!!! I was hearing far yo many coulds and cans by then…. in other words…. it is still mostly talk…. which was a huge anti-climax

  12. if space isn't an issue (salt caverns and such), why not compress regular old air? surely less energy for the same storage space.. but I'd rather have 10 salt caverns near me holding air, then 1 holding hydrogen

  13. Or salt water???? And so now we know why Ocean Mechanical Thermal Energy Conversion is so important folks..

  14. Wait I know that energy does not come out of nowhere

    But free energy can be redefined according to a new philosophy
    Only then can the free energy become accessible to all or at low and enduring prices that never run out

  15. I didn't see a comparison between hydrogen and batteries as I think both have their advantages, in certain areas. Hydrogen fuel cells are a great answer to ships and large machines, especially those that go back to a central fueling station, regularly as hydrogen is very expensive to store but makes NO sense for cars, trucks, bikes, boats, yard equipment and small machines that can, and do, charge at home for most of their charges and would never consider taking them to a H2 station for fuel fill ups. BTW, there are no Mormons in Utah, but there are A LOT of Latter-day Saints. Simple correction. 🙂

  16. Great video.
    Hydrogen storage, like normal battery storage, is a form of chemical storage. You use energy to chemically alter substances after which you reverse the process and get the energy back out.
    There's nothing new or special to this concept. The only question is: "how efficiënt is it?"

  17. I remember reading that gravity is the most efficient way to store large amounts of potential energy. For example, you could have pumps being powered by a combination of wind and solar that pump water up to a somewhat higher elevation as part of either a natural or manufactured reservoir for the water being pumped to reside at a higher elevation. Then you can release a portion of this water through turbines similar to the typical dam/hydro-electric method of generating electricity. After this same water has been allowed to run through the turbines it can then be immediately pumped back up to the reservoir again using a combination of wind and solar.

    So the energy related to the "charging" portion of what amounts to a big battery comes for free minus the costs of the wind and solar along with the pumps and of course the turbines. But still these are one-time costs.

    So what about a big battery based on this concept? It's obviously not harmful to the environment unless of course your man-made reservoir lets assume, springs a leak.

  18. Interesting information. For the off grid living, let us say we have Solar and Wind, and thereby excess power, then translated into Hydrogen. Can this hydrogen be used for cooking (natural) gas for the house, directly from a stored cylinder. is there a mechanism where we would be able to regulate the flow of Hydrogen without any kind of explosion.

  19. You have notable concept issues from 2:08 to 2:30. The complete circuit you have there is: solar panel -> negative electrode -> through water solution -> positive electrode -> solar panel. Your comment that there are 2 hydrogen to every oxygen and thus twice the electrons are going into the negative electrode bottle than the positive electrode bottle implies either a source creating extra electrons or a sink eliminating electrons. Since that circuit has no external sources or sinks of electrons and can neither create nor destroy electrons this does not make sense. The electrons passing through the circuit use the energy that they obtained from the solar panel to break the bonds between the hydrogen and oxygen atoms. Also, there is not a "hydrogen bottle" and "oxygen bottle." The gas inside each bottle is a mixture, 2:1, of hydrogen to oxygen. I was hoping you would have taken the "oxygen bottle" to the candle as well as you would have seen another flame indicating the presence of a flammable gas, specifically hydrogen. Also, if there were a specific gas in each bottle you would need to answer the question, where does the other gas go? For example, if the negative electrode causes a release of hydrogen in that bottle, where did all the oxygen that was in the water molecules that was broken down go? You also stated that the "hydrogen bottle" should fill up twice as fast as the "oxygen bottle" which did not happen. The rate that each one fills up has nothing to do the ratio of atoms in water. You would have to involve different pressures or solution concentrates inside the bottles to cause the rate of bond breaking to occur at different rates in the two bottles to see that effect. This experiment does not require two bottles. So long as the electrodes are separated they can both be in the same bottle. Adding the second bottle simply doubles the capacity of gases that can be contained in this case.

  20. Isn't the point of renewable to reduce the use of fossil fuels because of global warming?

    If you believe as I do that CO2 levels have no effect on temperature and man caused global warming is entirely bunk, then all this focus on green energy is just a waste of time and money.

    Greenhouses get hot because they are enclosed in glass not because of higher CO2 pumped in to improve plant growth. Ice-cores prove that geologically speaking CO2 levels follow changes in temperature – they do not precede it, therefore can not be responsible for changes in temperature.

    Anyone that brews and kegs beer as I do knows that cold water holds a lot more CO2 than warm water. As our planet warms and cools through out its solar and orbit cycles, vast amounts of CO2 are released or absorbed by the water in our planets oceans. Proponents of global warming have a vested interest in the global warming narrative because control over CO2 emissions means power and control of our economic systems. Global Warming narrative is about power and money and has nothing to do with saving our planet.

  21. There 's just some problems to overcome,like with every "new" Technology that humans come across….like the more than 100years it took to bring our usual motors to the current efficiency….not to speak of stuff thats used in those hope at the moment is completely in hydrogen,batteries for cars need lithium that is looking to be the next best rare Material which is terrible for the countries that are mining and producing it -plus from what i've heard here in germany's chemical Industry there are yearly around 30million tons of hydrogen produced(as a wasted side product) tvaz basically just need refinement.well,have nice day y'all

  22. lets say for example, your home is powerd on solar and all overproductions during the day is converted into hydreon…. do you realy need to presurize or liquify the gas for use during the night?
    wouldnt it work as well in low preasure form?

  23. Good presentation. The CO2. graph at the end, however, likely contains contaminated data and in any case, the sun is the most influential climate variable, IF the spectrum outside of UV is included.

  24. It seems like the most important information when considering a storage technology is its round trip efficiency (=energy out/energy in). Below is a quote from the extensive wikipedia article on hydrogen storage.
    "The round-trip efficiency is approximately 40% (vs. 75-80% for pumped-hydro (PHES)), and the cost is slightly higher than pumped hydro, if only a limited number of hours of storage is required."

  25. Does anyone know what the efficiency of the water to Hydrogen cenversion is? Couse I'm getting the feeling that nobody does…
    I'll tell you this: It Sucks

    Let us first focus on creating more than say 7% renewable energy and THAN talk about storing it.

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